Why

[samuraidan]

i haven't noticed any loss of business at places affected by the smoking ban. i mean, anecdotal evidence is generally worthless, so i'm not saying it isn't affecting people, but the places i frequent (mainly, Silky's) seems just as hoppin' as always.

[howlerscoyotecafe]

Jan 26, 2009 17:33:01 GMT -5 samuraidan said:

i haven't noticed any loss of business at places affected by the smoking ban. i mean, anecdotal evidence is generally worthless, so i'm not saying it isn't affecting people, but the places i frequent (mainly, Silky's) seems just as hoppin' as always.

I think it probably depends on the clientel of a place at the time this went into effect. There were a lot of places that were already leaning in that direction. Mostly because they had more patrons spending money that were non smoking than patrons spending money that were smokers.

Some places like The BBT, planned for it and added the outside deck.. The Harp & Fiddle in The Strip covered their patio, some don't have that luxury of space.

I don't want to re-hash this whole thing as it is a done deal and everyone is dealing with it. Do I still believe it should be a free market choice...? Yes I do. But that is not the reality of it, so be it. I'm not going to whine about it ad-nauseum.

For now, Howlers remains a smoking permitted establishment. Should we begin to lose clientel because of it, we may re-evaluate that policy. It always comes down to the money and you know that.

But, there are places that have seen a huge downturn in their business with this thing. I've talked to the bartenders who are losing income because of it. Its not just people not coming in, its the guy that used to sit at the bar and have 3 or 4 and a smoke, that now stops for just one quick one and leaves since he has to go outside to smoke.. that adds up.

However, I think it may have less of an effect once the warm weather comes back as people will have less of a problem stepping outside.

The smoking ban is not the topic of this thread though, all ages shows is. I only interjected that as an explanation of why one licensee stopped thier all ages shows and went to 18+ . It was not meant to start another dialogue on this thing.

[radioxwaves]

This is all speculation and I could be wrong, so tell me if you think that I am... I think a large part of the whole debate over there not being enough all-ages shows stems specifically from the fact that we're all old. This board in particular seems to cater mostly to the 22+ crowd.

I'm not saying that us being old is a bad thing, but being older now, it's easier to guarantee a crowd of our peers at a bar for a show. Most of the shows I've been to at all ages venues since my friends and I entered our mid-twenties have been generally low attendance (with the exception of basement shows and one American Armada show at GA over the summer). In fact most of the shows I've been to at Franks house in Polish Hill had a good range of kids from 16 to their late 20's, which is something I LOVE more than anything about basement shows, the diversity in age range... but I digress.

Again, because we are "old" we no longer have the social networks we used to. A lot of us aren't in college anymore or haven't been for some time. The same goes for our friends. Our friends no longer wish to come out to whatever show is going on at the drop of a hat like they used to because they have to be up for work in the morning/because they worked late/because of a wife or girlfriend or because, simply put, a lot of people lose the energy they were able to run on when they get older. Or they simply lose interest in music altogether (the friends, that is). That said, as old people, it's easier to coerce *our* friends to come to shows at bars than it is a small hole-in-the-wall venue.

I think a lot of it is that we (and I'm not saying everyone here) lack the interested group these days and don't know how to reach out to college and high school aged kids who'd be interested in coming to a local rock n roll show.

When I first started going to shows they were always all ages unless it was at the 31st St. Pub and sometimes the Upstage. There was Laga and there was Metropol for the "big" shows, and it wasn't uncommon to see a good local band opening for them. There was Roboto and Millvale Industrial Theater for things on a smaller scale and/or local scale.

I haven't been to Roboto in well over a year. Nothing's come there that's interested me in the least. But Roboto DOES still exist. There aren't many people I know who are still active in anything Roboto related but the message board, at least from what I understand.

I don't think it's *just* a question of available venues though.

I think, ***************and I'm looking at you Code Orange Kids***************, that if you want all ages shows, you're going to start booking them yourselves. Sure, it's not as easy as I may make it sound, but it's not as hard as you might think either. Throw a house party, invite your friends, play at that party and make it memorable. Then do it again. And again. If you kids are still in high school and can't do that now, then endure, get into college, move out and *then* start booking these shows. Ask other local bands that you like or are friends with to play and I'm sure that if they're not the types who see themselves as "above house shows" (in which case, why bother with them anyways?) I'm sure they'll come play.

Start from the ground up. Do it yourself, 'cause nobody else will do it for you.

[Razberry]

Jan 26, 2009 11:45:34 GMT -5 joemelba said:

yeah, it sucks. i feel for ya dude. when i was under 21, there were thankfully lots of all ages places to see shows.

Seriously. In the winter, it's harder, but I remember going to lots of shows at parks and hell, anywhere where you could find a power supply. Community centers, people's yards/basements, even acoustic shows where there was no power!

[radioxwaves]

Kevin Costner hears voices telling the Code Orange Kids: "If you book it, they will come"

[grapeh8te]

Yep, I agree with that I think there were more all ages shows years back, because a lot more kids actually set them up. I mean look at all the shows that happened at CoolPeppers. No one waited around to be asked to play somewhere people just did it.

and here is Joe Strummer's take on smoking

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n62wjBUhZk

[bertokhadafi]

There are plenty of all ages shows out there. They just don't draw a mixed audience the way an all ages show at an alchohol serving establishment does. There are small town metalcore and emo shows with teenyboppers every weekend. PA has ass backwards laws where it comes to alchohol and mixed audiences and the added draconian smoking laws of allegheny county will make it worse. The solution demand that people be free to make their own choices and take away power from officials by supporting libertarians in elections.

[burnburnburn]

we defintley are gonna continue our own stuff. thats how we did our first show and thats how we've done it in the past. This month we are playing at a VFW hall, a Rec center downtown and Games N At. i just wish that we could play to a broader audience then the kids who go to those shows every time.

[bertokhadafi]

You should pay me to come out. I'm sort of a local celebrity. $50 and you can put me on the flyer.

[radioxwaves]

i'd rather give you $50 to go away forever

[bertokhadafi]

Jan 27, 2009 20:12:26 GMT -5 radioxwaves said:

i'd rather give you $50 to go away forever

Be more creative please. I expected that from someone.

[radioxwaves]

Okay, I'd rather give you $50 to choke on feces you were eating from an ice cream cone

[iatls]

Jan 27, 2009 19:49:35 GMT -5 bertokhadafi said:

I'm sort of a local celebrity. $50 and you can put me on the flyer.

delusions of grandeur

[Razberry]

Jan 27, 2009 22:33:59 GMT -5 radioxwaves said:

Okay, I'd rather give you $50 to choke on feces you were eating from an ice cream cone

I just spewed coffee on my desk.

[ohidontthinkso]

I dont know...Berto is pretty amusing to have at shows!