Why

[bertokhadafi]

When I went to see world inferno there was no age restriction. Kid you should get all your band's fans to join the fight to repeal the smoking ban.

[grapeh8te]

Jan 26, 2009 12:35:47 GMT -5 bertokhadafi said:

Kid you should get all your band's fans to join the fight to repeal the smoking ban.

ha, ha, ha.

[howlerscoyotecafe]

Jan 26, 2009 12:35:47 GMT -5 bertokhadafi said:

When I went to see world inferno there was no age restriction. Kid you should get all your band's fans to join the fight to repeal the smoking ban.

Yeah, that's not gonna happen. If anything they'll continue on this path and create more restrictions further down the road.

I don't want to get into a philisophical discussion on this. It is what it is. I'm a smoker, but there's no denying that cigarette smoke is not healthy for anyone.

Eventually, the market will out itself. When it becomes more profitable for a bar to be non smoking than smoking.. it will happen. In the end money talks..

If the places that can do all ages were able to make a profit as doing these shows, they'd be doing them.

I understand this kid's frustration, but what he needs to do is galvanize the under 21 nation of teenagers that want them and get them to buy tix, show up when they happen and find a venue that will see there is a profit in doing it..

[burnburnburn]

My band played the show with World/Inferno Friendship society and their was no smoking ban. So i guess it was recently enforced.

[bertokhadafi]

What you don't realise is eventually you won't have the right to make any decisions for yourself. The only positive I can see from this is if it sparks people to join the libertarian cause.

[Flashy Ross]

Jan 26, 2009 13:02:29 GMT -5 bertokhadafi said:

What you don't realise is eventually you won't have the right to make any decisions for yourself. The only positive I can see from this is if it sparks people to join the libertarian cause.

You should get a headstart on this and get rid of your Internet connection.

[bertokhadafi]

Jan 26, 2009 13:27:21 GMT -5 Flashy Ross said:

Jan 26, 2009 13:02:29 GMT -5 bertokhadafi said:

What you don't realise is eventually you won't have the right to make any decisions for yourself. The only positive I can see from this is if it sparks people to join the libertarian cause.

You should get a headstart on this and get rid of your Internet connection.

please explain

[howlerscoyotecafe]

Jan 26, 2009 12:55:24 GMT -5 burnburnburn said:

My band played the show with World/Inferno Friendship society and their was no smoking ban. So i guess it was recently enforced.

The PA Smoking Ban or "Clean Air Act" went into effect on Sept. 11, 2008.
Bars that do less than 20% of their revenue in food sales were able to file for an exemption and continue to allow smoking.
One of the rules of getting this exemption was that nobody under 18 is allowed on the premises under any circumstance.

Now, I'm not sure about this, but.. Belvederes had been doing shows that were "All Ages".
It is my understanding that at first, they tried continuing that because they can maintain a separation between the bar and the performance area and can use two separate entrances. So, technically, they could maintain the exemption in the bar area but just not allow smoking in the performance area. If you read the rules, this would seem to be in compliance with the law. (However, like I said, the rules are deliberately very vague and open to different interpretations).

About a week and a half ago, the PA LCB combined with The Health Dept. sent out warning letters to about 50 or so venues that had complaints filed with them for so called violations of the smoking ban laws.

I'd be willing to bet that the all ages thing came up with Belvederes.
I don't know this to be a fact. But, I'd be willing to bet that the PA-LCB didn't quite see it the way Belvies did and told them either nobody under 18 anywhere on the premises or they lose their exemption.

Again, money talks. If it were more profitable for them to go with the ban and be a non smoking venue to continue to do all ages, they would. In the end, most venues are going to go with what's making them money.

[theatomicfamily]

burnburnburn,
I, Erik of On Vinyl, absolutely feel your situation and hate it with you. We have taken a break from basement shows for no real good reason other than I'm tired of bad PA's hurting my throat after 12 years and people who only want to get drunk and don't care about bands. It'd be nice to see people who aren't just punk as fuck come out to basement shows. When The Lost Sea gets their shit together I'm gonna propose this rediculousness to them...an acoustic basement rock show. I'd love to be in the crowd.

You guys are all cool and I respect your go-get-it attitude so if you manage to do a house party let me know and I'll do my best to bring On Vinyl to rock out with you.

BIG HUGS!

[bertokhadafi]

So who's fault is it?

[howlerscoyotecafe]

Jan 26, 2009 15:15:55 GMT -5 bertokhadafi said:

So who's fault is it?

Whoever "snitched" on Belvederes and filed a complaint with the health dept for them continuing all ages shows after the smoking ban went into effect..

[ohidontthinkso]

I dont think they were on the giant list of people who got complaints.

[bertokhadafi]

Isn't it the fault of everyone who supported the smoking ban? I mean who is neive enough to think you can give the government more power and expect them to use it intelligently and not simply mess things up. Thats kind of what I was getting at. I mean of course someone was going to missuse their power they were given. You cant blame a 4 year old if it eats so much candy that he gets sick and you can't really blame the snich or the officials because they never should have had the authority in the first place.

[howlerscoyotecafe]

Jan 26, 2009 15:29:57 GMT -5 bertokhadafi said:

Isn't it the fault of everyone who supported the smoking ban? I mean who is neive enough to think you can give the government more power and expect them to use it intelligently and not simply mess things up. Thats kind of what I was getting at. I mean of course someone was going to missuse their power they were given. You cant blame a 4 year old if it eats so much candy that he gets sick and you can't really blame the snich or the officials because they never should have had the authority in the first place.

Look, Berto.. government power, support for the smoking ban.. all of that is totally irrelevant here.

Its about money, its about profitability. I don't give a rats ass about the smoking ban, or how it got put into effect.

YES, I think it should have been up to the business owners to decide if they want to be non smoking or not. I believe that eventually, many of these places would have gone non smoking on their own as their customer base began to demand it.

But, it apparently wasn't happening fast enough for the health Police.. so they put the legislation into effect.

Fine, it is what it is. Those of us that felt it in our best interest to apply for and obtain an exemption - did so.

But, if in the next few years, if more and more of our customer base goes non smoking and it becomes in our best interest to go in that direction, we will.
Even now, since I have the luxury of two separate rooms.. I will, upon request from the performer, remove ash trays from the performance area and tell folks smoking on the bar side only.

My only problem with the smoking ban supporters, is that they don't now support thier own legislation by making an effort to seek out the non smoking venues and see to it that these places are not losing profits because of it.

I know of several places that have seen huge losses since this went into effect. So all of you that wanted this.. should be making an effort to go to these places. That's where the true power is.

The issue in this thread is all ages venues and why there seems to be a lack of venues or shows for these kids that want to see them.

Again, its a matter of following where the money is. If the kids want these shows and can show that they will support them by showing up and spending their $$$$ at them. Someone will step up and find a space for them.
Obviously, that has not been happening of late, since there seems to be a lack of this going on and these kids/bands/whatever are resorting to basements for their music.

[burnburnburn]

thanks man!
hopefully my band can play with you guys soon.